[主題] 挪威森林貓

[這篇文章最後由russmania在 2007/10/26 02:15am 編輯]

I am always very, very picky about Norwegian but funny enough I cannot really pick much on this boy...................

下面引用由russmania在 2007/10/13 03:17pm 發表的內容：
I am alaways very, very picky about Norwegian but funny enough I cannot really pick much on this boy...................

Yes, a very stunning and eye-catching boy indeed - very sharp overall and 'very NFC'. I'm most impressed with his ear set, the lynx tips and the head shape.
Some breeders have warned me before that the standards of TICA somewhat deviate from those of CFA. To cite an example, there is a subtle difference between the head shape as well as the muzzle of a standard TICA Maine Coon and that of a standard CFA MC. Don't know if the same thing happens to NFC.

[這篇文章最後由russmania在 2007/10/15 01:27am 編輯]

下面引用由virginliu在 2007/10/14 00:48am 發表的內容：
Yes, a very stunning and eye-catching boy indeed - very sharp overall and 'very NFC'. I'm most impressed with his ear set, the lynx tips and the head shape.
Some breeders have warned me before tha ...

well this is what I wrote in a Malaysian forum when I was asked by a forumer (who is an ACF judge for more than 30 years) about the following:

comyncats (the Australian judge) asked:

""New topic (for a very few, I suspect!!!) - I can't help but feel that the old, 'dripping' overcoat (of many Norwegian Forest Cats) seems to have been sacrificed in large part to the acquisition of other things, such as more extreme or standardised type. Over to you and Mykatt or whoever else has an interest.""

My reply:

""This is actually a BIG topic to me Lesley.........my experience with NFO's type's'.............

As a designer, there's a word which I "almost" mention everyday, in the school or in the office - "concept". Put it this way, without a clear and good concept no excellent design can be accomplished. And in fact, without a "concept" nothing in life works. Mind you, a "concept" is never meant to be something utterly immaterial or incomprehensible - Einstein and in fact many top scientists always start their exploration of the world with simple concepts and keep developing them.

To me, now as a breeder, I also talk concept. And when you have seen a certain number of a breed of which the interpretation of standards is rather "not the same" in various clubs around the globe, you need to ask yourself - "what's now?".........especially you are starting from scrap......

Well, I did...........

There is, like Lesley says, a trend in Europe these days (especially Scandinavia) of the more narrow-headed, extreme long-bodied NFOs. While what I have seen has told me these cats may ("may") subsequently mature into some nice cats, their expression is in general rather diversed from the early-established type in the post-war era.

I cannot think of an absolute reason for this, but just that it must be some collective favourite of a big group of breeders across a big area that has lead to the outcome. Likewise, in the US since the first pair of NFO import in the 70s', in order to distinguish the NFO from the MCO, a lot of breeders have been directing their programme in such a way that more short-bodied, small-eared, short-and-round-headed Norwegians have been bred over the years, and this is particularly obvious in CFA, perhaps only with a few exceptions (those with supreme achievement are people I'd like to get my cats from too - but only a few). In TICA this is not that serious since in my mind TICA NFOs are relatively closer in standard to FIFe than CFA - this can be reflected by the fact that the 2004 TICA Best NFO, also an International Winner (IW, similar to NW in CFA) is a Swedish-bred cat (TICA IW, SGC S'Aristo Limaz Chief Nacona). Back in Europe of the same year, FIFe EC S'Aristo Limaz Quanah Parker, DSM is the "Skogkatt of the Year 2004" (Best NFO in Europe). No surprise, they are brother and sister of the same litter.

My Aldo (GC, DW Russmania Aldo Rossi) is a cat which I think the body and tail (and perhaps head as well) are not quite long enough, which otherwise I might keep him in my breeding programme. Antonio is definitely a better cat in these areas, hence the reasons why he is intact. The funny thing is, when I showed Aldo in Europe in early 2007 (Italy and Germany) he managed to final all 16 rings in two shows of which 6 rings he got BIS. A few judges had left similar comments like "in US, in generall, NFCs have shorter body and according to the original European Standard, this (Aldo) should be the kind of body length to look for". I was a little shocked, a cat which I think the body isn't quite long enough was regarded by a number of CFA judges that his body is longer than all (or "most") NFC they had seen back home before.

This opens up a window in my head or better still, has consolidated my belief over the years - very extreme and long-headed NFOs are in no way gonna go anywhere in CFA, end of story. This is just so hard to change some collective tastes of a huge population, especially by converting from one extreme to the other's.

Nevertheless, what I'm trying to do is, like Confucionism has it - the Doctrine of the Golden Mean of Balance. Not extreme, not short-bodied-round-headed, but in between. And interestingly and promisingly, this is essentially what Lesley says the "old school" type - back in a couple of decades ago when the breed was re-established in Norway after the WWII. To me, if it is old school, so be it. Afterall I don't really care about how this "type" is generally called, it's just that this is a type I like, and will keep working on in my programme.

With the Norwegians I like the tall and strong type with a thick coat with that specail "charisma". A top show cat in my opinion must have a certain aura. Judging only the standard of a Norwegian is out of the question for me. The overall impression of a cat is much more important.

I don't have a great liking for small, long-headed and elegant NFOs - I prefer the cosy bears with thick paws.........period.""

hope that it's not too long for you..........the forumers in that Malaysian forum tend to be much more knowledgeable in cats than the people here I reckon..................

下面引用由russmania在 2007/10/15 01:26am 發表的內容：
well this is what I wrote in a Malaysian forum when I was asked by a forumer (who is an ACF judge for more than 30 years) about the following:
comyncats (the Australian judge) asked:
""Ne ...

What you've mentioned is indeed a pretty complicated issue - an issue that is perhaps beyond the ability of a green breeder like me to handle.......

In another occasion when I talked to you more or less about the same thing - the type, I remember you used the same wording 'concept'. Now that you repeated this and that I've done a bit more research, I think I can comprehend what you mean by 'concept'. A 'concept' to you is like a 'vision' to me. As I told you before, after seeing loads and loads of pictures of Maine Coon cats, I can envisage the overall looks and the features of the MCats I desire most. You know, there are some particular 'types' of MCats that I don't appreciate AT ALL (just like you), even though they are NWs or whatsoever, and this kind of 'bias' is purely 'personal'.

Thus, keeping this in mind, I can narrow down my search for my favourite cats and I now know which catteries I'd love to get my cats from immediately when I see their cats' pictures. Surprisingly, there aren't a lot left! Nevertheless, there's another tricky issue to deal with (not to mention the difficulty of obtaining them yet) - even if I put two beautiful cats together, their offspring may be far from the 'final product' which I've envisioned before! Breeding is far more complicated than this. Regarding this issue, I've discussed with some other breeders before and some of them advise me to obtain two cats that are somewhat genetically related ('linebreeding?') so that their looks and type can be maintained. This sounds a good and feasible approach but it seems to contradict to my personal belief - to avoid the inheritance of genetic defects.

You have the 'guts' to bring back what it used to be. As a 'newbie', I don't, because winning is important to me too. Just like what I said in my website, although I have an ultimate goal to incorporate a 'foundation cat' in my breeding program, this won't be realized in the near future because it is too big a risk in terms of winning. Don't know the situation of NFCs, but in the Maine Coon world, it is quite a shocking fact that the MCs we have today can be traced back to merely 5 'ancestor' cats, meaning that most MCs we have nowadays are in one way or another genetically very close. And indeed, now when I search for more info about MC catteries, I find that a lot of cats of my favourite type have the same grandparents or great grandparents. That's why a group of bold breeders have started to incorporate foundation cats in their breeding programs. They search for a cat which possesses the features of the MC they want in the wild / in farms and use him/her as the foundation in a bid to widen the gene pool. Some of the offspring of these foundation cats look very sweet and not feral at all, which, according to them, is the classic looks of Maine Coon. Besides the looks, they work for improving the overall health of the breed too.

The whole concept of foundation cats is very fascinating to me. However, very few of these catteries are title chasers, which means whether CFA would favour / accept this type of MCs has yet to be proved. And as a green breeder who hasn't established the cattery yet, I dare not take such a 'risk'. But you are different! You've already accomplished what you crave for, so there's a lot of room for you to pursue your 'dream'!

下面引用由russmania在 2007/10/15 01:29am 發表的內容：
hope that it's not too long for you..........the forumers in that Malaysian forum tend to be much more knowledgeable in cats than the people here I reckon..................

Don't worry. Do you remember my daytime job? I feel very comfortable reading long 'essays'.....

As for the second statement, I agree with you though I know why it's like that. I've also reiterated before that 'knowledge' is crucial, and so is the application of knowledge.

[這篇文章最後由virginliu在 2007/10/17 11:17pm 編輯]

That said, I love coming here for leisure. For example, the DIY page is full of creative ideas of how to make useful and fun items for our four-legged companions. http://www.supervr.net/catbbs/topic.cgi?forum=24&topic=675&show=0
It's amazing to see some DIY products that are comparable with the ones available on the market!

By the way, I'm still updating my homepage. The original interface is pretty lousy because I chose to use a legitimate but not very suitable software at the beginning. Now, I'm gradually adding some scripts to enhance the nevigation. What'bout you? Have you updated yours recently?

[這篇文章最後由russmania在 2007/10/17 11:47pm 編輯]

下面引用由virginliu在 2007/10/16 10:10pm 發表的內容：
But you are different! You've already accomplished what you crave for, so there's a lot of room for you to pursue your 'dream'!

not quite true to be frank...........I don't always get what I want...............

however the bottom line is that I do endure, and am often able to stay focused on my targets, and I think I do have the kind of characteristics of a hunter..........won't make much noise when I'm "working on it"........until I begin to shine some light on things................

things are better done than said I guess..................

in case you are curious about my new girl Virginia...........

My wait-of-the-century girl from Switzerland, Rainy, has finally come to my home in Hong Kong today and I shall take some new photos for her and upload to here soon.........

Blue Tanis Purple Rain, black and white girl

father: EC La Foret's Jakarta, DSM
FIFe Best NFO male in Europe and Skogkatt of the Year 2006
FIFe World Show Best NFO male 2006

mother: EC Karamell av Fjellheia, DSM
FIFe Skogkatt of the Year (i.e. Breed Winner) in Europe 2005

下面引用由russmania在 2007/10/25 11:08pm 發表的內容：
in case you are curious about my new girl Virginia...........
My wait-of-the-century girl from Switzerland, Rainy, has finally come to my home in Hong Kong today and I shall take some new photos fo ...

She's come from very very strong bloodlines ah.......
Of course I'm eager to see her photos, although you said in another forum (don't remember which) that an NFO looks a lot better as he/she grows up.

<sigh>....so envious that you can always obtain cats from such competitive background! And I've a strong feeling that it would take me ages to accomplish what you've done in just a few years' time.......

Jealous!!!!!!!!!!!

下面引用由virginliu在 2007/10/25 11:45pm 發表的內容：
She's come from very very strong bloodlines ah.......
Of course I'm eager to see her photos, although you said in another forum (don't remember which) that an NFO looks a lot better as he/she grows ...

not at all girl..............you indeed have started off quite impressively with the kind of bloodline you got.............your patience will pay off one day, if not "VERY" soon.....................

just chill out and cheer up..............

下面引用由russmania在 2007/10/26 00:52am 發表的內容：
not at all girl..............you indeed have started off quite impressively with the kind of bloodline you got.............your patience will pay off one day, if not "VERY" soon.......... ...

Haha...don't worry. I'm often, if not always, pretty optimistic! Even though I said so, I'm actually quite contented with what I have now. Da Vinci is a very lovely and spoiled kid and Diorela is so affectionate and amiable.

Deep down, I am not jealous of you at all! You're one of the breeders who deserve my biggest admiration, not because of your achievements but mainly because of your dedication to the pursuit of the betterment of your chosen breed of cats!

Rainy

Blue Tanis Purple Rain of Russmania

Rainy's father

FIFé EC La Forêt's Jakarta, DSM

2006 FIFé Skogkatt of the Year (i.e. FIFé Breed Winner) in Europe
2006 FIFé World Show Best Norwegian Forest Male in show

Rainy's mother

FIFé EC Kara Mell av Fjellheia, DSM

2005 FIFé Skogkatt of the Year (i.e. FIFé Breed Winner) in Europe